The current state of the server and economy

Moretti

Head of Development
Management
Developer
Ad Supporter
Dec 19, 2018
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I thought I would like to write up a little status update on the server and to get all of the communities thoughts on the server.

Right now, we are stuck in a loop of players not coming on to role play because they have no desire or need, no satisfaction or nothing to gain. I personally, take responsibility for this and as a community member more than management, I want this server to succeed. I want somewhere to role play and where I can call home. We've tried things within the server and I feel that these may have been great on paper, but doesn't fit the need of the current server and it's demands in the GTA role play scene.

Starting off with our economy.


Our economy was planned to partly mimic a realistic economy but also not to bring in the grinding effect. We wanted to both attract players to the server with a stable and ever changing economy and we have started to implement this with the recent addition of the trucking and product delivery jobs. We have a system that the price totally demends on the current demand of the businesses that you, the player, interacts with. You buy something, that business loses one product, this product then needs to be bought from a warehouse. If that warehouse is low on stock, you can pay a lot more than what it's actually worth.

So, with this in mind I think it's time we look at the state of the server and what we can change to attract you, the players, onto the server.

I realize that the server was poorly advertised for the open tests, both over the holidays and this weekends. I've had a couple people come to me, informing me of a hype around Los Santos V and the need for a decent server, yet, I have physically not seen this. We have a few dedicated members on our forums and discord but for the amount of people we have registered on the server, discord and forums, I feel the activity is seriously lacking.

I don't know if people told me there was a hype or not, just to see how I would react, but I wanted to show those of you who were waiting what progress we have made. I am satisfied with the progress that has been done, and I can honestly say that I feel we have the opportunity to be stable and allow you to play for many hours without crashes, yet bring a smooth experience to you.

The script features may not look the prettiest, as I wanted to add in the systems and get them working physically before adding the pretty pictures. Whats the point in an animation if the code doesn't move the animation? It's just a still non-working picture.

Anyway,

There has been a lot of discussion within various levels of the staff team on how we can improve the server and attract the players to it. Right now, you login and select your characters lifestyle, get a house and vehicle voucher and use them. The idea of the vehicle voucher is to basically give you a suitable vehicle for you to run around in that fits your lifestyle. The house voucher is the same, however it is planned on you paying back a certain percentage of the house price. This is dependent on the house price and your lifestyle. The idea for this, is to minimize the need for grinding jobs and encourage more role play, however we have found that more players are logging in, getting the items they want and not returning.

So, we are looking into a way of changing this.

We are thinking of removing the voucher system, everything will be wiped. (I know I said there would be no wipes, but this conversation has been going on for tonight, and the state of the discord, forum and server activity is starting to bug me. So for those who are reading this and decide that this wipe affects you, the chances are it doesn't really)

The amount of hours that have been played during the tests has been minimal, again I partly take responsibility due to the lack of pushing the advertisement.

So, with a wipe on the horizon, I want to look at a way that can reward those players who start to be active and encourage players to come on. This is only in pencil, not black ink so it is subject to change.

Every 50 hours of playtime, you will gain a certain amount of money. This will be called a tax rebate. For example, $15,000.

We currently give your characters first bank account, a little bit of money. This is currently $1,000. This may be increased a bit to help you get started.

We are going to add in two rental systems. One a vehicle rental system, you head to a point and rent a vehicle. This will cost you x amount per hour to rent it. You will be able to select from a couple of different vehicles to choose from and the price will vary depending on the vehicle.
A second will be a motel system, you rent a room from one of the many motels around Los Santos, these prices will vary depending on which area you wish to be in.

A couple of jobs will be added in, that can feed other jobs. This is only an example of the idea;

A fisherman will fish and sell their fish at a dock.
A fisher monger will buy the fish from the dock and sell to a point (There can be multiple points)

The more fisherman sell fish to the docks, the better the price is for the fish monger, but the worse their sell price is. Over crowding of fish would be best for fish monger and not for fishermen, however in turn, a low stock of fish will give the fishermen a better price but cost the fish monger more. This is similar to the product delivery system.

A farmer will work the fields and sell the products to a grain store.
Workers will transport from the grain store to a point.

We can add in many of these jobs and basically rename what they are, but..

The final points, all then will feed into the product system for businesses, so the less products being fed into the businesses, the higher the business cost is for buying the products.

Along side this, we can have some jobs such as a mailman.

This is just a plan for the jobs, but I want to know what you think of the above. Would adding a system in and removing the basically free voucher systems be what you need? Personally, I think it is.

We as a staff team think that the reason no-one logs in is;

A) The never ending circle of a player logging in and not finding RP, logging out and wanting admins to provide all the RP
B) They have their free house and vehicle, thats all players want and we have given it to them.

So, to counter this, is why we plan to remove the voucher system, wipe all characters (I will save the database before, and if players want their customization added in, it can be done if they can't perfect their character.), introduce a couple of jobs that allow players to work and build up an economy.

This is your chance now, to say how you want this server to work, and please for the love of god, if you speak out what you want, please show us the support that we need to push us through!
 

Woltrazz

Bratty Boi
Dec 31, 2018
33
33
18
I would be happy with removing the voucher system. I'll write up some ideas later tonight which might help as well to give it the original yet fresh look.
 

Aquila

Admin
Admin
May 9, 2019
136
60
28
I was initially anti-wipe for my own needs. Fortunately (unfortunate for me though), I seem to be one of the few who grinded a lot for a second vehicle some time ago, so a wipe wouldn't be catastrophic for the entire population. I've come to accept that a wipe would be beneficial, so long as there are script jobs to keep people occupied. Saying that, a wipe is kind of a Schrodinger's Cat situation.

My idea for gathering and production is solid, but sadly it was never progressed in any server. A system in which five food groups are gathered, produced, and delivered, would be beneficial for players and the server. Gathering milk through cattle, meat through hunting, grain through farming, fish through fishing, and whatever else. This is something that'll keep people occupied and also fill stores and businesses, in addition to providing daily RP.

Voucher system is basically instant gratification with consequences - it's something that very few saw the drawbacks of. Much like staying up late, it feels good, but it has negative impacts and just makes us feel useless shortly after. Grinding is sadly key, and in all fairness it allows players to do something while they wait for people to get on.

It's come to the point where the server's stable enough to warrant advertisements. Very few people in the GTA RP community know about alt-v, and some people may still remember LS-V for what it was a year ago or something. It's worth bringing in new faces through advertising, because there's only so much that word of mouth can do.

All in all, the inactive lurkers on Discord (who usually just play on 1 other server) are just extra baggage. No point in having them. I'd suggest removing the Players role, doing a full prune using User Management, then reapplying the Player role would be a good idea, since the User Management feature just kills off completely inactive players anyway.
 
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Gaz

Meeting Misser
Ad Supporter
Dec 31, 2018
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Require playtime to keep voucher property. Wipe will be detrimental
 

shaobadman

Moderator
Moderator
May 11, 2019
39
11
8
right now i maintain the opinions i had during the staff conversations of this issue, it's not to be taken lightly because the discussion was heated enough to merit big changes to the core of this community's server, it's a reasonable response when work is put in and people fake an interest only to not actually log in, regardless here is where i stand:

- a wipe of assets and money, for every character to begin again, i say this as someone who owns a house, two vehicles and a business in game, despite it being a roleplay server i don't think there's much pulling in players to log in when they almost immediately achieve their assets, rpg elements are unavoidable
- a removal of the voucher system, to be replaced by paychecks as was the case on every server tracking back to samp, it isn't emulating or copying other servers, it's opting for the standard route because it works so well and can be built on, because the vouchers right now offer instant gratification and give players nothing to work towards
- removing the lifestyle choice to allow more freedom to players

we all want a serious roleplay server but sometimes the features of a server that stand the test of time such as hourly paychecks and the like are often the best route, the vouchers and other questionable features should be seen as experiments to gauge interest, and they did, just not the way anyone expected them to
 

DeadRooster

Member
Jan 1, 2019
37
26
18
Honestly, I would be okay with getting rid of the lifestyle feature but I don't see the point of wiping current characters of their houses, vehicle and business.

I mean I get it we gotta work hard for our stuff but still let the current players keep their stuff.

Feel free to disagree.
 

Moretti

Head of Development
Management
Developer
Ad Supporter
Dec 19, 2018
163
165
43
Honestly, I would be okay with getting rid of the lifestyle feature but I don't see the point of wiping current characters of their houses, vehicle and business.

I mean I get it we gotta work hard for our stuff but still let the current players keep their stuff.

Feel free to disagree.
The thing is, there are a lot of inactive players who came on and got the free benefits, personally I feel like they don't deserve them.
 

Prae

New member
Jun 26, 2019
8
4
3
I say this respectfully to Moretti and the rest of staff, but doing a server wipe right now and changing to the suggested kind of economy will make me less likely to be active in this server. The way things are now, I can do a little running around to set up a house and transportation for my character, and I'm set and can immediately jump into roleplay. But by changing it, we make it a more grindy system where I'm going to have to do a lot of legwork just to be able to make the character ready for roleplay.
 

DeadRooster

Member
Jan 1, 2019
37
26
18
I say this respectfully to Moretti and the rest of staff, but doing a server wipe right now and changing to the suggested kind of economy will make me less likely to be active in this server. The way things are now, I can do a little running around to set up a house and transportation for my character, and I'm set and can immediately jump into roleplay. But by changing it, we make it a more grindy system where I'm going to have to do a lot of legwork just to be able to make the character ready for roleplay.
You got a point there.
 

Prae

New member
Jun 26, 2019
8
4
3
I don't want to dig up the past, but I think we saw the effects of that in more grindy servers. Players spend all their time fishing (or some other grindy activity) and little to no time roleplaying. Sure, it might bump the player count up, but it'll be an artificial population. Players will only interact with others if, say, they get into a huge car accident while they're doing their grind. Otherwise, yeah they're on the server, but they aren't contributing to real interaction or gameplay.
 

j.p

New member
May 9, 2019
17
5
3
Personally, I’d remove the voucher system and instead allow users to apply for properties/businesses & vehicles of their choosing in which they feel will help benefit themselves and the server in creating RP. Whilst obviously keeping it realistic.
 

shaobadman

Moderator
Moderator
May 11, 2019
39
11
8
I say this respectfully to Moretti and the rest of staff, but doing a server wipe right now and changing to the suggested kind of economy will make me less likely to be active in this server. The way things are now, I can do a little running around to set up a house and transportation for my character, and I'm set and can immediately jump into roleplay. But by changing it, we make it a more grindy system where I'm going to have to do a lot of legwork just to be able to make the character ready for roleplay.
but for how long, realistically, will you roleplay on a server that doesn't top 10 players at a time? I like to roleplay too but I don't see a point in playing on a server where it's difficult to find other players, and if I need to grind some then so be it because I'm otherwise lost on the server when my only goal is to find people who are probably not around at all
 

Aquila

Admin
Admin
May 9, 2019
136
60
28
Require playtime to keep voucher property. Wipe will be detrimental

I'm wondering whether it'll be fair and reasonable to put existing properties on hold/inaccessible until a certain number of playing hours are reached. By this, I mean that basically all your properties are gone until you've reached X amount of playing hours. That's just up for further discussion, though.


I say this respectfully to Moretti and the rest of staff, but doing a server wipe right now and changing to the suggested kind of economy will make me less likely to be active in this server. The way things are now, I can do a little running around to set up a house and transportation for my character, and I'm set and can immediately jump into roleplay. But by changing it, we make it a more grindy system where I'm going to have to do a lot of legwork just to be able to make the character ready for roleplay.
Well, the server had almost no population anyway. Its been at 0 for a while and today, after the wipe, I've seen 7 people on. People want to grind because they wanna reach their goals. It's satisfying to get things straight away but the novelty wears off.

You can get set up and immediately RP, but with who? Nobody was on. Grinding comes with RP quite often, and so far I've seen a positive difference.

Either way, if the wipe will demotivate you from coming on, then what demotivated you from coming on before the wipe? Nobody ever went on except for a select few.
 

shaobadman

Moderator
Moderator
May 11, 2019
39
11
8
I don't want to dig up the past, but I think we saw the effects of that in more grindy servers. Players spend all their time fishing (or some other grindy activity) and little to no time roleplaying. Sure, it might bump the player count up, but it'll be an artificial population. Players will only interact with others if, say, they get into a huge car accident while they're doing their grind. Otherwise, yeah they're on the server, but they aren't contributing to real interaction or gameplay.
can you name any successful gta rp servers that didn't have some sort of grinding involved? because it sounds too good to be true and I've had no problems finding roleplay on servers that have grinding jobs
 

Prae

New member
Jun 26, 2019
8
4
3
can you name any successful gta rp servers that didn't have some sort of grinding involved? because it sounds too good to be true and I've had no problems finding roleplay on servers that have grinding jobs
DOJ doesn't have grind, and it's arguably one of the more successful servers. I'm not saying that this needs to emulate DOJ completely, or have no economy whatsoever. But the grind to have to set up a character for how I created them before I can even begin roleplay heavily puts me off of *wanting* to roleplay. Because I don't want to grind for 20 hours to be able to afford a house and a car for a character that I wind up not getting much playtime on because the org dies right after I get the character the assets he needs to be able to participate. The longer it takes you to get to a position where you can roleplay freely, the worse the experience is.